We missed recording a season of Think Like a Producer in 2023 so instead we recorded a bonus episode covering our updates from the year, what we’ve learned, and what we’re exploring in 2024 as media and podcast producers.
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- Tiff Tyler
- Christine Baird
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Many thanks to our production team
Transcription of this episode:
(auto-generated, please forgive typos)
(00:03 – 00:09) Christine Baird: Welcome to Think Like a Producer podcast. I’m your co-host, Christine Baird.
(00:09 – 00:20) Tiff Tyler: And I’m your co-host, Tiff Tyler. Being in the podcast industry, being in the content creation industry, this is what we’ve learned, and this is how you can get out of your own way and get started.
(00:20 – 00:41) Christine Baird: You name it, we’ve probably done it. This podcast is about bringing all the wisdom to you. Tune in weekly to learn how to think like a producer. Welcome to a bonus episode of Think Like a Producer. Hi, Tiff. Hey, Christine.
(00:41 – 00:46) Tiff Tyler: Happy Think like a producer that someone call it whichever day this comes out.
(00:46 – 01:57) Christine Baird: No We haven’t recorded an episode all year and we tried multiple times to schedule In-person recording session for a season four and the stars never aligned And so since we’re getting towards the end of the year, we just decided you know what? Let’s record a bonus episode give an update about our what we’ve both learned this year, what we’re working on, where we see things going in 2024 and then in 2024 hopefully we’ll bring you a new season. We’ll have so much to talk about. I know. So we’re going to start, we’re both going to give a little update. If you haven’t kept up with us this last year and obviously we haven’t published any episodes since January or maybe the last episode of season three I think came out maybe in early February. So we’re going to give you an update. Tiff, how about you go first because you have quite an interesting job right now. And then I’ll give a little update about what I’ve been working on this year. And then we’ll kind of go into something cool and new we’ve learned or are using this year that we haven’t used in the past. So tell us your update, what you’ve been working on this year.
(01:58 – 04:37) Tiff Tyler: Yay. Well, I’m glad you said job, because this is really technically the first time I’ve had a job in almost a decade. So full-time employee for the first time in quite some time, but working with the amazing Tabitha Brown. If you don’t know who that is, Google her. She is all over the place. You can’t really put her in a box, I would say, as far as what she does. now i hear construction but you can’t really put her in a box uh as far as what she does um she is an entrepreneur she’s uh in target she’s um got her own hair care line she’s got now a podcast that I helped start and Christine helped me help start, um, for her. And, uh, we’re just all over the place. The YouTube channel has grown to over a million subscribers and it’s the lowest technically of all of her social media accounts because she’s just everywhere. Um, but I do think next year, a lot more acting will be popping up and everything. So you will see her a lot more, but it’s been a great, um, it’s been a great year. It’s been a busy year. Like Christine said, it’s been hard to, uh, hit the brakes and take time to do things like a producer, really because it has been such a learning year for me. But overall, that’s what’s new. Full-time employee, she’s the only one that could lock me down like that, because other people have definitely tried. And I was like, no, thank you. I like my freelance life. But if I was going to be a full-time employee, she would be the person, obviously, that I would want to go with. But yeah, kind of just thinking about what 2024 will be. But for the most part, if you need me right now, consulting is pretty much all you’re going to get. But I, of course, have a whole bunch of great people that I can recommend and everything when it comes to things, when it comes to radio recording in Los Angeles, you know, all the production side of things that I used to do. But for right now, consulting is kind of where I’m at. But yeah, working with Tab has been amazing. Going on her book tour last year was amazing. Being on set with her for Tab time was amazing. She’s probably the only client I’ve had, or I guess now boss, that I’ve had that there’s so many different categories, so many different boxes that she checks, that everything keeps changing every couple months. So for me, I liked freelance life because I get bored really easily. I like change. I like new things. I like a new challenge. But this has been only one year, and it’s been new challenges every quarter, if not sooner than that. So it’s been great to work with her. But that’s pretty much my producer update, full-time producer for Tabitha Brown. That is the new title.
(04:39 – 04:46) Christine Baird: And how many podcasts are you currently producing just for her? Podcasts, YouTube shows, whichever.
(04:47 – 05:56) Tiff Tyler: She’s got two YouTube shows. So it’s one main pot. Well, technically three YouTube shows. Okay. It’s hard to describe. So, uh, the podcast is Fridays with Tab and Chance, right? That is her podcast. She does with her husband and that is available audio and video on YouTube. Then there’s very good Mondays, which is strictly on. It’s well, it’s not strictly it’s on YouTube, Instagram, and Facebook. She actually posts a full episode across all of her social media. Um, but that one is. supporting small businesses and reviewing products. And so that one, Very Good Mondays comes out on Monday. That one is not really a podcast, but it is her YouTube show. And then Tab Time, which is her kids show, which I am not a producer on, but that’s actually how I met her and connected with her, was working on that show when she was doing it, I think season two. But for right now, that’s the three shows that people can find on YouTube, but Very Good Mondays and Fridays with Tabby Chance is on her main YouTube channel. And then Tab Time has its own. YouTube channel, and it’s for kids. Like, I want to say ages like seven and younger, but anybody can watch it.
(05:56 – 05:59) Christine Baird: Didn’t she just get nominated for that show again?
(05:59 – 06:41) Tiff Tyler: Yup, her second Emmy nomination as a host, which was cool because I was on the season that, like, the whole show got nominated. So I don’t know about Proxy. Got a cool Emmy nomination in there. But yeah, she is on… Good research, Christine. She is on… You’re welcome. Her second Emmy nomination right now is a host for it. So yeah, Tap Time is the big flagship show. And then she just continues to create and come up with new ideas. And trust me, there’s so many more. So we shall see what next year looks like. But for right now, there’s three running shows on YouTube that she is the star of and producer of.
(06:42 – 07:08) Christine Baird: I actually have a question just because I think this is educational for everyone because media is evolving so rapidly and there’s so much crossover now between TV, YouTube, and podcasting. If her tab time show is, is it only on YouTube? You said it’s on YouTube, but is it also on TV? Because I didn’t know you could get nominated for an Emmy if your show wasn’t on cable. I think it’s a new category.
(07:08 – 08:35) Tiff Tyler: Or streaming. because streaming has become so big, they’ve created more categories and opened it up a little bit more because even I believe last year, so they separated now. Like there was like the main Emmys and now there’s the children and family Emmys. And that’s the one, it’s still Emmys, but that’s the one that she’s was nominated twice in. So I think so much with the streaming, with creating content, which shows that, even the big award shows have to keep up and create new categories that make sense. But she was up there with Sesame Street last year when it was for the whole show, Sesame Street and a few other big hitters. Tab Time was right there. So it’s really interesting. But yes, I think the rules and the categories keep changing because we keep changing, right? I know it’s probably an interesting topic right now, but Red Table Talk, what they did with Facebook Watch, even though Facebook Watch is now no longer, it’s there, it’s getting so many people. then what? You know what I mean? As far as just like, like, so I think YouTube is going to be around for a while, but I think things will continue to change as social media, as these streaming services, as on, like, like everything just keeps changing.
(08:36 – 12:02) Christine Baird: Yeah, that’s really interesting. I know we could go further on that. I was just curious because I do know how much streaming services like Netflix, Hulu, etc. have changed TV and all these incredible shows can now get produced straight to streaming that can have a whole different creative life because they don’t have to be on cable news at the 7 p.m. slot on Thursdays or whatever. But I didn’t realize what the current rules were for where YouTube fits into that and I get it. It’s literally changing all the time and everyone’s figuring it out. What a cool update. Let’s see. My update for this year, I have been knee-deep in learning how to run a small business, an agency. and the studio. So it’s been quite a learning curve year for me. A lot of adult responsibilities. I am proud of how much great stuff we’ve done at our studio this last year. The variety of people who’ve come in and the things that have been created. It’s been really fun for me to take my skills as a producer and apply them in a variety of ways, both for podcasts and YouTube shows, but also just to see other teams come into our studio and create their own stuff. They don’t always hire our team. Sometimes they just book the studio, and I get to see what other teams are doing. We’ve had big networks book the studio for just a space for their guests to come and record, and it’s been really fun to kind of be the studio producer who’s helping the network producer make sure that the remote recording has gone really well. So it’s been cool to kind of see a little bit more into how some of the bigger network podcasts run their operations and I’ve really enjoyed the in-person creative experiences. I think that’s probably the thing I’m most excited about going into next year. I’ve definitely been doing what I do for almost 10 years. I think I would say I started in this industry in the spring of 2014. So Spring of 2024 will be my 10-year mark. And I’ve been kind of reflecting on that because I’ve done so much of the same. And this year, I’ve definitely started to spread and network in person with people in Utah, different types of shows, different types of projects. I’ve kind of been leaning more into media strategy, like myself personally. and getting much more interested in collaborations and co-hosting and not being as concerned with making podcasts a certain way and being much more interested in like, where are we heading? What can we do with the tools that we have? And how can we apply them to this next generation of media, which I feel like is absolutely coming like right now, like we’re creating it right now. So, some is the same, like I’m still a podcast producer who owns a production company and a studio and we make great shows every week and a lot of that is the same. You say it like it’s so small though.
(12:02 – 12:12) Tiff Tyler: I’m like, oh, you know, I’m just the owner, creator, you know. I know. It’s just like you say, like, it’s, you know, just same old, same old.
(12:13 – 14:03) Christine Baird: Well, it’s really good for me to have that mirrored back to me. You’re probably the third person in the last like month who’s kind of acknowledged me in doing a great job at something that’s not super easy to do and I need to hear that because, like I said, I’ve been doing this for 10 years almost and so a little bit I’ve become, you know, a little bit blind to my own skills but I think for me, one thing that I’m really proud of from this last year is that I have stuck through it when it’s been tough, not just because the podcasting industry at large has changed quite a bit this year and there’s been kind of a lot of shake up in how the industry is doing things, but also like being a small business owner is no joke. That has been quite the stretching experience and I’m just proud of myself for like sticking through the non-glamorous parts and getting clearer and clearer about what I do want to be making versus like, you know, there’s some things that I could let go because that’s how we used to do it, but we don’t need to do it that way anymore. So that’s my update from 2023. We’ve probably, I should have done a tally before we got on. I think we’ve produced anywhere from 12 to 20 shows this year. Wow. And I know that that’s not nothing. I know that it’s not a small thing. Um, sometimes I’m a little foggy on our numbers just because there’s various levels of involvement we have with different shows. And so. I can think of all the shows we’re actively producing right now, but then there’s other shows that we just help on the launch side and other shows. We just help on the consulting side. And so some are in that neighborhood.
(14:04 – 14:46) Tiff Tyler: What have you learned producing that many shows? What have I learned? Because I mean, 12 to 20, that’s… I mean, once you figure out that final number, you should definitely put it in the description or something. But just wondering what that… Whether it’s the process that you learned a whole lot in, or is it even just working with people? Because that’s 12 to 20 personalities, right? 12 to 20 different topics, different ways, different equipment, different ways of, you know, even discipline between those clients. Right. And who’s like, I’m going to shoot four episodes in a row. And some people are like, I’ll do it once a week and let you know when I, when I’m done with everything.
(14:46 – 18:46) Christine Baird: That’s such a good question. There’s a lot of things I’ve learned this year from working with that many different show hosts and their teams. One is that, Show hosts, who also run businesses and are personal brands, are very busy. almost I would say too busy to host a show. There’s a different type of person who has kind of reached a tenure in their career where they can step back from running their own business or brand or doing their job, you know, 60 hours a week and they can make some time, can be a show host in a different way. And that’s kind of the person I’m more aligning myself with now as an ideal client for kind of our most involved productions. So one big lesson this year has been that business owners and personal brands who are actively in the weeds of their business doing everything are pretty busy and I shouldn’t expect them to be the kind of show host that I would expect of someone who has the time to literally treat this like a job. And so that’s been a good lesson this year. I’d say another thing I’ve learned from working on that many shows is that one of the biggest joys in making your own show is the show host gets to have the most fun because they get to actually show up and be the curator of the conversation. And it’s been really cool to see the joy that that’s brought to so many clients. On the back end, in post-production, it’s a lot of the same same. We don’t necessarily as a team get that same level of joy and magic. I’m not even saying this is like a good or bad. I’m just saying sometimes because so many of our clients are in the same industry or have referred each other to us, we have literally had the same guest on three different of our shows within the same week. So for our team, we can be literally producing very similar conversations. And so the little bit of that magic and fun gets lost and it’s, it’s okay. It’s our job. Like we are producers. So like, don’t feel bad for us. But I would, I’ve noticed is the client, the show host is having amazing time recording these conversations because it’s the only time they’re having that conversation. And for them, it’s brand new and fresh and awesome. And so that’s been a good perspective where like from a production house point of view, it’s like we are just here to get the thing best as it can be for the audience and get it published. The show host is having a whole other experience. because they’re getting to have these conversations and be present and curate a really unique, interesting conversation. That’s the only conversation they’re going to have with that person versus on the production side. You know, we may hear that same guest on multiple shows within a week. And it’s also good insight because if you’re an editor, and you hear the same guest on three different shows, it really shows you how to be a good show host because you get to kind of see what different show hosts do and how the conversation can be that different even with the same guest talking about probably the same thing a lot of times. When a guest is on that many shows in that amount of time, it’s because they have a book coming out or a TV show or a big, you know, products that they’ve just launched. And so they’re typically, they have a, a talking point that they’re trying to get across. Um, but it is insightful when you hear that same person on multiple shows in a short amount of time, you kind of can pick up on, Oh, interesting. This guest or this host asked this question, which led the conversation that way versus this host asked the guest that question and it went that whole way. So, It’s one thing we’ve learned.
(18:46 – 18:50) Tiff Tyler: It really is a challenge for people. Change it up.
(18:50 – 19:24) Christine Baird: Well, yeah, I think I do have more thoughts on here. I guess I could go down a rabbit hole, but I won’t. It’s more important for me to remember as a producer to never diminish the experience that a show host is having just because my production team may have been like, oh yeah, yeah, we’ve heard this before. It’s like, that’s not the point. The point is that that show host and that audience of that show may have never heard this before. So let’s treat this like it’s the first time this is being said and give it that much care and attention.
(19:26 – 20:02) Tiff Tyler: That’s beautiful. That’s producer life. I keep learning from you. That’s what I’m saying. I don’t want to say I get bored easily, like I said earlier, more just like that was an issue for me. That’s why I even left. I kind of left the podcast world for a little bit because it was a lot of the same guests coming back on with different books and different things. And it was like, okay, this is, you know, wonderful people. Yeah. Even if it was across different shows. But it was really kind of like, you know, I mean, right now it’s book launching season.
(20:02 – 20:07) Christine Baird: Yeah, there are a bunch of people is book time.
(20:07 – 22:56) Tiff Tyler: I mean, we are watching the same interview across all these different to your point. I want to respect the host. It’s not the same interview. There are different questions. But it’s about the same book. Let’s say that it’s about the same book. or with, you know, with the same guest across all these major podcasts, all these major interviews. And I think as a fan, you’re probably only listening to your favorite people, right? You may not actually be listening to the five, 10, 15 interviews they’re doing. You probably just listen to the podcast that you love the most. Um, but as a producer, right, as someone who has to keep up with everything, who has to look out, you know, who’s big right now, what’s going on and what, what is everybody talking about? So I can continue to make relevant content or suggest relevant content to my client. It’s kind of like, It’s just interesting, you know, that perspective that you just said, because that really kind of woke me up. Like, you get to respect the individual, the individual and the excitement that they feel, because this is their once in a lifetime moment to have that conversation. Every interview will be a little bit different. Every person is unique. But again, that’s the true producer in you, the kind, Christine, human that you are. Because yeah, I mean, that was a hard, that was really the reason why I was kind of out of our industry for about two years. And just started, you know, kind of over a little bit and then came back with Tabitha. But overall, I really needed a break from, or I needed to see something different. You know, and then and now I feel like I am working with someone who’s so unique, who isn’t even this is the first time I’m not doing interviews. This is the first podcast I’ve worked on. That’s not an interview podcast. We’ve only had Maybe four couples come on as guests, maybe three. And one comedian come on as a guest on this. And it’s been on all year, every Friday for an entire year. That to me was refreshing because now you got two people talking about different topics. These are the only two people and it’s a married couple, 20 years. I’m not promoting the show. I’m just realizing right now why it actually is exciting for me because it was fun to change up. what I had been used to. And technically in an industry that’s different too, because self-improvement, motivation, I wouldn’t say Tab’s not in that industry, but I would say she’s not like anyone I’ve worked with in that industry. She’s not putting out courses or different things, at least right now, in a sort of like teacher sense. She’s more just sharing life experience.
(22:57 – 27:09) Christine Baird: That makes sense. It totally does. Well, and I think this leads us into what we wanted to talk about next. Each of us sharing something that we’ve learned this year. I know I started to get into it, but I think what you just shared could fit this segment. Um, because one of the things that I’ve learned this year. is that realistically speaking, for the vast majority of people who want a podcast, it is really inefficient and challenging to try and do guest interviews weekly forever. And even though that was both of you and I’s intro to the industry, was working on a show like that, it’s really, really rare. Like it’s a true kind of unicorn situation where that can work out. And so one of the big things I’ve worked with a lot of clients this year on is focusing way more on solo content, not interviews, either just the person delivering their best expertise, content, teaching, insight, or co-hosting and having guest interviews be much more of a special thing. And I think part of my reasoning there was to help build these shows into a much more sustainable production for the client. But also because to your point, the art of interviewing is, it takes a while to develop that skill. And some people can do it really, really well. And if we expect everyone to be as good as the people who are really, really good at it. It’s just like a real big expectation gap and it can lead to burnout. It can lead to self beat up. It can lead to a lot of comparisonitis. And I’m way more interested in helping people make great shows that play to their strengths than like expecting them to get through this learning curve of being an awesome interviewer of people who’ve been interviewed by like the best interviewers ever. So I think it’s really cool that you’ve enjoyed the switch to non-interview style shows. I would love to do way more of that going forward, not just because I’ve done a lot of interviews, but because I think for most people, their strong suit is in teaching and sharing what they know or talking to people that they already know really well. So more of like a co-host situation, like you were referencing. So that’s one thing that I’ve learned this year. There’s been a distinct shift in my perspective in podcasting for appetite of conversation. And the conversations and the episodes that I think are doing the best right now are either solo, like just the host or the host discussing the topic of interest. Or if they have guests on, they are people that they know really well and have a lot of rapport with. And there’s a much more natural, deep, insightful quality of the conversation than just like, Oh, Hey, you’re on book tour and your publicist booked you on my show. And now I’m going to, you know, read part of your book and ask you some questions. There is a place for that and some people do it really, really well, but they’re the vast minority. And so I think that’s one big thing I’ve learned that I’ve tried to really help clients get confident with is like, you do not need to be interviewing people on your show. We’ve kind of, I think, passed that time in podcasting for most folks. There’s of course the great interviewers of the world who should continue on because they’re brilliant at what they do. But I just don’t think we need nearly as many interviews on podcasts as we need insightful, quality conversations with the audience or with co-hosts or with guests that the show host really already knows and has like really deep connection with already. So that’s my learning from this year, one of many. Do you have another learning or another share you want from this year that has been valuable to you?
(27:09 – 33:18) Tiff Tyler: Well, we talked about the other show, Very Good Mondays. This is also my first time producing a show product-based, right? Everything was interviewed. So I went, you know, Fridays with Tab and Chant. husband and wife talking about a particular topic, which they had already done the show for two years before I got there. So they had already, they were already close to 100 episodes before I got in. So trying to support them with new topics, to your point, was like very interesting, but they’re good at it, you know? And anyway, Very Good Mondays is my first time just, really supporting with that, supporting with small businesses and really understanding how great it is to use your platform to support small businesses. I think this is also You know, when we talk about interviews, right, and we talk about podcasts, especially for people who aren’t known, those book interviews, those book tours support the podcaster, sometimes more than the person selling the book because they got such a big name on their podcast, right? It helps market them, it helps get, so. It’s so interesting because the whole point of Very Good Mondays is to leverage a big platform to support small people coming up, right? Where everything else I had done was the opposite. It was like, oh, this person or this guest is going to get us more views, or we’re going to leverage their audience. And now it’s, you know, Tab reaches 13 million plus people across all her platforms. Let’s bring this person who has a thousand followers on their Instagram, but a really great product. And now let’s see if we can help them sell out their t-shirt, their dress making company, their candle making company, their just everything. And so it’s been interesting for me to, I feel like everything this year has been a switch. Like almost the opposite of thinking because we don’t even market the way that I would traditionally market. We’re not, we’re looking for, it’s just like I go through comments like I would do with every client before now. Where are people looking at? And everything is laughing. It’s joyful. All the clips that I pull, it’s always coming from the audience. But they’re so engaged. Some of them remember. It’s funny. I thought of an episode topic for Fridays with Tab and Chance based on a comment. Because she has such diehard fans that they were referencing something from three years ago. So I went back, found that episode. And then we did an episode that was an update to that episode. But it’s all the fans helping me with the content. But yeah, Very Good Monday, supporting small businesses, leveraging such a big platform to help other people come up and build up. That’s been new. Reviewing products and websites. Like I’ve never had to do this before. And supporting with that. And just really, really grateful and thankful that Tab did all this by herself. before, you know, I was there. She produced and did all these things and interacted with all these businesses. Adele has stuff all on her own. So it’s just been, it’s been learning in one sense of just two new shows that I’ve never had the opportunity to produce that kind of content. And then also just for myself and time management. And we, you know, sometimes I just get tired and I’m like, man, but you were doing this all by yourself. You know, I still have such a, a love for the entrepreneurial spirit because there’s such a drive. It’s not just with her, but other clients that I work with, that I think we’ve worked with, where you’re just like, man, it’s not, I don’t, you know, we’re not, we’re not promoting not sleeping, right. Or not taking care of yourself, but the drive to, you know, you’re just not going to watch TV. You’re not going to relax this week because you got three, four things that are so, um, that draw so much fire from you, that you’re just, you’re so willing, like that other stuff doesn’t matter. You’re going to engage in this. So she definitely relit that, that fire that I had working for people like this that are just so driven and so motivated that they’re not thinking about how much time do I have today? They’re thinking about the impact that they’re going to make. They’re thinking about the people that they’re going to support. So needless to say, I’m very excited about, what I’ve been able to support with over the last year and what’s coming up next year, I still don’t know. But I’m very excited to be a part of the team again next year and to just keep learning. I still feel like I only understand about 20%. of what she does. So I still got a lot of learning to do and it’s great to work with someone that is, that wants to, you know, slowly, you know, get me into understanding the other parts of the business. But I will say, this is the most interactive I’ve been with somebody in their show. Because she’s a comedian in my mind, you know, she’s way more than a comedian, but she definitely has the comedy improv under her belt. And so a lot of times you’ll hear her call out production or TIFF or whatever, you know, when she’s making a joke or something. And there’s a couple episodes where you’ll actually get to see my face. and certain things when she’s talking about me and stuff. And so it’s really been the first production I’ve really, really been a part of where, you know, she says my name and the fan base can sometimes recognize me in different things. It’s really, really interesting to see someone that just wants to continue to see the people around her win, you know, in whatever form that is. So, yeah, it’s been… keep going almost you know control myself because it’s it’s probably so many other things this year that um i’ve learned but right now at the forefront just producing two shows that are different and working with someone that just continues to to amplify people with not as big of a voice and platform and to suggest has this drive that I just love to be around every day. That is that’s 2023 everybody. That’s my my Jordan year 23.
(33:22 – 34:18) Christine Baird: That’s awesome. That’s so inspiring to hear. It’s just really cool, I think, for everyone listening or watching to hear that that is possible and that within this media world that we’ve been working in for years, there is enough space and evolution for personalities and shows and companies like that to do really well. I am personally thrilled to see the amount of diversity, not just in like race or gender, but in age and topic and personality and lifestyle come into this world of online media. Because I think when you and I both started in it several years ago, it was like a lot of the same. type of person who was making shows and kind of being seen. And it’s really really cool. And it felt like a young person’s game. Definitely felt like a young person’s game.
(34:18 – 34:20) Tiff Tyler: Unless you were a team-y personality or something.
(34:20 – 34:20) Christine Baird: Yeah.
(34:20 – 34:30) Tiff Tyler: It was like more like oh this entrepreneur and Even, yeah, I’m not gonna go on that rabbit hole, but yes, it looked a lot alike.
(34:30 – 40:31) Christine Baird: Even in the last year, three major late-night TV talk show hosts have left TV to go to podcasting. Trevor Noah, James Corden, and Tosh, somebody who I didn’t even ever watch his show, but three late-night TV talk show hosts have left TV this year and gone to podcasting or, you know, or forthcoming podcasting. And so I think there is like a whole lot of switch up happening in diversity entering the space, not just like celebrities from, you know, 2020s explosion of podcasting while everyone is home, a lot of those didn’t stick around, but like actual trained professional media hosts are leaving TV and going to podcasting. Not like everyone’s leaving TV. That’s not what’s happening. But at a certain point in media host careers, when they’re kind of done with the late night TV talk show situation, there’s now this really cool space for them to go like David Letterman with his Netflix series, which you could totally, you know, see as a podcast. Jon Stewart obviously had a podcast and an Apple TV show and he’s not going to continue the Apple TV show. He’s just going to continue with the podcast. So it is really interesting. And then obviously during the writer’s strike, you know, the, the five current late night TV talk show hosts all did a podcast together, strike force five. And that did really well. And they’re all comedians. So, you know, no big surprise that it was entertaining. But it was just kind of cool to again see from the kind of tippy top of trained media show hosts, they all have kind of dipped their toe into podcasting or completely switched over to podcasting as like a really viable medium to share their talent. Okay, let’s wrap it up with maybe we thought it’d be fun to share either something we’re predicting about this world we work in in 2024 or something we’re excited to explore or create in 2024. Should I go first? Yes, go first. I’ve got to think about mine for a little bit. Okay. Well, this won’t be surprising to anyone who’s been like watching our YouTube channel, Worthful Media’s YouTube channel, or on our Worthful Media’s weekly emails. But I think for me, the big thing I’ll be focusing on learning and exploring is AI and how it’s best fitted to use within media production. We’ve already made several changes on our internal team operations to use AI for things like show notes to help with unedited shows. So like right now, Tiff and I are recording on a platform called Riverside, which we recommend to anyone who’s remotely recording. But I’ve known about Riverside for years, and it wasn’t until this year that I was like, you know what? I really think it’s worth using now for an unedited AI-supported show, because we’re really not going to edit this episode in Adobe Premiere like we normally would. We’re just going to use the tools on Riverside to clean up a little bit of things, enhance the audio, put together the video on an audio, and we’re just going to publish it. Um, and that’s a big change. Like we didn’t really have a good option for show hosts before this year, I would say for having kind of a minimally edited good quality audio video show. And now we do, it’s not perfect. It’s not the same as if a human went through and edited the show, there’s not going to be graphics. There’s not going to be like perfect transitions. Um, obviously you’re going to notice like there might be a little bit of, stuff that we could have cleaned up if we had wanted to, if we had taken it to like a traditional editing software. But I’ve been really excited about how quickly AI has been kind of rolled into a lot of these podcast production tools, specifically with video. And so I’m excited for that to make editing or not editing, quite a bit more accessible to a lot of people. So that’s a big thing we’re internally at Worthful Media, my company, we’re going to be doing next year. We’ve already kind of started with a lot of shows. And I’m also interested and curious to explore how efficiently we can use AI to clean up a lot of the menial manual labor that used to require humans but really didn’t need to require humans. Like it wasn’t taking a lot of brain power to like go through a bunch of raw footage and you know, splice and dice, there is certainly a lot of human intelligence needed to make a great show. But I think in the past, there was like all this time that had to be spent that you wish you could have outsourced to a machine. And hopefully, hopefully in 2024, the AI technology will get good enough to help a lot. It’s still kind of new, like it’s not super great yet. Like you still have to go through and quality control quite a bit of it. If you use even like plugins like Autopod to help kind of do a first draft of your interview edit. But it is really interesting to see even like text-based editing using tools like transcript editing to cut video and audio. It’s really cool to even just have the option to start playing around with and seeing how much better it can get and seeing how much time we can save that didn’t need to be focused on those tasks so that we can focus our amazing creative teams, brilliant brains on the good stuff, the stuff that does require like wit and intelligence and nuance and emotions. So that’s what I’m excited about, one of many things, but what are you kind of looking forward to or interested in exploring next year?
(40:31 – 43:34) Tiff Tyler: Before I answer that, I just want to, for all the people who are scared of AI, I feel like we should kind of talk about it because I, as you were talking, and as the conversation has been coming about AI, even like the actors strike, right? And protection when it comes to these things now. When COVID hit 2020, my whole job was almost gone because of the tools that we’re using right now, Riverside, and these things where it’s like, oh, we could do virtual, right? It was almost like people were continuing their podcasts. They weren’t booking people in person because it wasn’t safe. We had to figure out what was going on. And my business almost completely tanked. you know and but people still needed me in the sense of they needed to know which mics to get they needed to know how to plug up their camera there was still a skill set that i had that you know to me everything is time right like could you look up on youtube and figure out and go through all the reviews sure or you could go with someone who’s already obsessed with it, already watched all that stuff, and can support you with those things. So I just want to say that. I think AI is, because I’m thinking of editors, right? Who now probably have less work because people are using AI tools to edit their videos or to do things a little bit differently. And to just shout out to people that we are still very valuable. I think that all these new tools, even social media, right? How it took away from a lot of people’s jobs when it first came out, right? Because now everyone’s marketing and branding on their own. A lot of marketers were like, well, what do we do? This is like a call to continue to learn, to build a new skill set, to figure out if you are an editing company and you’re like, shoot, we could take on more clients because we can use AI. to actually bring in more clients and more time for us like that. So just think about it like that. Think about these tools as something that’s going to support you and challenge you to learn a new skill set, but not something that’s going to take away from your work. I just want to say that I never really talked on AI, but I keep reading all these things that really feels like it’s scary for creatives, depending on the way you use it, right? Like the artists, the writers, like AI doing it, you know, not just the transcripts, but now can take your transcript and rewrite the articles and different things on your website. Like, I do feel like this is a call to action for a lot of us to continue to build our skills, but to see how we can utilize these tools too, as artists and not just feel like we’re about to lose a bunch of clients or a bunch of things because we don’t have it. So I just want to say that. I don’t know your thoughts on it, but I know as a technical person, as a person who editing was at one point a very big portion of my job, it’s like it’s scary sometimes when these new things come and you say, oh, yeah, we’re going to figure out how to use these tools. We don’t have to edit as much. But if your whole job is an editor, you know, like you might be listening, going, well, there goes another potential client.
(43:35 – 47:56) Christine Baird: Yeah. Well, that’s a good point because I’ve never, this is from a producer’s perspective, but like I spent, I don’t know how many hours over a thousand editing audio and I would be thrilled with a capital T if AI took over that job. And I don’t think it will be able to a hundred percent because there are certain nuances to a certain type of show that it will take a very long time to train a machine to be able to do it with the same level of interest and nuance and quality that would be interesting to an audience. But there, in the very near future, is an AI plugin that will allow a piece of audio to run through and clean up a bunch of the really tedious, mindless speech cleanup that I used to have to do manually, I would be like overjoyed. And there are tools that are in beta right now that people are playing around with and using. there wasn’t a lot of my brain power going into that. It was like tedious. There were other parts of me as an editor that I knew. I just knew that what I was doing was like gold and that a machine couldn’t replicate that because I don’t even know how I could have trained a machine to do some of the things I was doing because it was so nuanced. It involved me being in the studio live during the recording, seeing things that were happening that you couldn’t tell a machine were happening, of what to keep and what to cut and how to make that work. But the stuff that was so tedious, that was like, I knew when I was editing, I was like, gosh, it would be awesome if a machine could like do the first pass and, you know, take 70% of the time that I had to take listening to this raw recording and cleaning up like in a heartbeat. And where I get excited about AI in my world, in the world of media production, is not taking away the creativity and magic of editors, but in freeing their time up to actually do what they’re so brilliant at. And I’m just speaking in audio. Video takes way longer to edit than audio and it is super tedious a lot of times. And it’s not like when I talk to our editors, our video editors, and I’m like, hey, do you think any of the AI tools that have come out yet are good enough to replace some of what you used to do? They’ll just give honest feedback. They’re like, you know, we’ve tried it. It’s still not quite the quality that we do. So we have to go back and proof everything. So it’s taking the same amount of time still between running it through the plugin and then going back and proofing everything and adjusting as needed. But I, have to believe that when the AI plugins get good enough to do that first cleanup pass as well as a human would, whether that’s taking out long pauses, speech ticks, you know, cutting off segments that weren’t clean then the video editors can go in and do brilliant work that’s super human powered where they can see the emotions and the moments that they’re like, oh my gosh, let’s pull this out and make this really cool thing that they just didn’t have time to do before because they were on a production deadline and the minimum had to be met, which was, you know, clean speech and not choppy jump cuts. I’m just thrilled for the thought that human editors will have their time freed up to do the really, really good stuff and machines can take over the tedious stuff. I am an optimist and I think there’s tons of really gnarly, bad, bad things that AI could do to state the obvious deep fakes. I, to your point, in no way see AI replacing humans for quality work. There’s some stuff that’s like no one was doing quality work in that type of show anyway. So it’s like this outsourced it to machine because no one was having fun making that lower quality show anyway. And I’m not saying that as like a judgment. I’m just saying, like, if the production quality
(47:58 – 48:09) Tiff Tyler: I don’t mean to cut you off, but it’s like, for people who don’t have a budget to hire a person, this is going to be great for them. Yes. You know what I mean? So I understand what you’re saying. I didn’t mean to cut you off. Continue.
(48:09 – 48:50) Christine Baird: Well, you said it pretty succinctly. I just get excited about being able to bring work to my team. That’s something they’re genuinely excited to work on. Versus in the past, it was like, hey, this is what we got, and somebody has to do it. So I’m sorry it’s not more creative. But this is what it’s going to be. This is like what we’re getting paid to do. But I’m hoping and I’m optimistic that coming forward, when I take something to my team, I’ll be like, hey, this is actually a really cool project. And you can spend 90 percent of your time doing the creative, cool stuff on it versus 90 percent of your time doing speech cleanup and making clean cuts.
(48:50 – 49:20) Tiff Tyler: Man, I just wanted to. I don’t know who knows who this will help with that A.I. ramp. But I just felt like, you know, I never I’m sure you have on your podcast talked about it. And as you’ve been given more tips and everything, because Christine has been all in, obviously, on podcast tips, and y’all should watch all the videos across Workful Media’s YouTube, because there are a lot of videos about this. But I haven’t had a chance to talk about it. I’ve been thinking about it for so long, but I haven’t had a chance to talk about it. So I appreciate it.
(49:22 – 50:05) Christine Baird: That’s what bonus episodes are for. And if y’all, if you want to leave a comment or shoot us an email, cause you want to hear us talk more about this, go right ahead. And maybe we’ll get ourselves together sooner rather than later. If you’re clamoring for us to talk more about this, cause we’re barely scratching the surface as far as. how AI is being applied in the bigger media industry. But let me go to you to wrap up, because I don’t think I talked about what I’m excited about exploring. You went on an AI insight, and now let’s hear what you’re excited about, either exploring or curious to see what happens with something in media in 2024.
(50:05 – 53:47) Tiff Tyler: I mean, I think ownership is still always a conversation that is talked about, not talked about enough. It goes back and forth depending on who you’re talking to, but you post a picture on Instagram, it’s not your picture anymore, right? You post a video on YouTube, it’s on YouTube. And so I think watching some of my favorite creators right now, some of the content they’ve been creating, I think ownership is at the forefront of their minds right now and making sure that they have a website and not just a website that people can land on, but something that, like going back to the old school, the blogs, the, you know, if for some reason everything goes down or YouTube decides we’re just gonna turn off for a day, whatever, like you aren’t losing all your potential views or people or even just analytics that are coming from, you know, even monetization and how ads will continue to go up and down and all the different things that you really can’t control. I really think that ownership and what you’re even talking about of people leaving networks and going to independent, like there’s something to that, right? There’s something to the amount of money you can have. There’s something to the amount of control you can have. There’s something to having more control and ownership over your content, that it’s nice to have these outlets to get to a wider audience, but to focus on what you can build yourself and what is actually yours. That’s what I’m really excited about for next year, because I’ve been thinking about it for myself, but obviously for my client and just what I get to support because, um, Yeah, it’s great ads and all that stuff to be making money off of these different things in different ways, brand deals, all that stuff. But it’s so back and forth. I really think that there’s going to be something to, or people are going to start to move more into, um, real ownership of their content and what they’re creating and really leveraging off of that more than they’ve been able to, because they’ve had to be on. these other platforms to build such a wide audience. I didn’t even think about that before we started talking today, but I do think that that’s going to be something that makes sense because I really don’t want people to just put their stuff up because I’ve seen a lot of people just put their stuff up and they don’t save it. They just think because it’s on YouTube or because it’s on social, they can take it off their phones. And I’m like, no. What if, you know, there’s been plenty of times where Instagram was down, you know? It’s like, you don’t, your stuff, you should be able, you should be holding onto your things and making sure that you have your original content and everything. So anyway, I’m excited about that on a business side. And on a personal side, I am just excited about building more relationships, hanging out with people, like just, I will say the wonderful thing about having a job is that I don’t have to hustle as hard. to find the next client, to find the next job. So my brain power gets to go all into the content and what we’re doing. And I’m not in a constant hustle state. It’s new for me. It’s been a year of telling people, no, I can’t be there, but here’s somebody else. So on a personal side, I do, while my job is wonderful, And I feel like we work hard and play hard, so I will say that as far as just the demand of it. But there is time that I don’t think I had before, at least just in my mind, to be able to think about other things. So I’m very excited about that on a personal note. But I wanted to ask you on a personal note what you’re excited about for 2020. Business is business, but we’re people, too. We’re humans, too.
(53:50 – 55:29) Christine Baird: I’m excited for creative inspiration to return to my life. I have felt pretty disconnected from creative inspiration for the last couple years and I feel it’s starting to come back into my world. And I’m really, really grateful because I am a creative person and a lot of my joy and my energy and my passion comes from creative projects and I am feeling disconnected from that. It’s been a hard slog. I’ve definitely felt not quite myself the last few years. When I think about something I know that I can have control over and work on next year, it’s doing creative projects that I’m genuinely inspired by with people that I really want to work with. I’m not just talking business. I’ve been reaching out to friends about show ideas I’ve had to make kind of just for fun. Sure, they’ll be case studies for showing the variety of shows you can make. And I’m looking forward to that. I think it will be a big boost to my own energy and my own desire to keep going. But yeah, I think reconnecting to creative inspiration is one of my biggest goals for 2024. And I think it’ll make a huge difference in my life and in the quality of contribution I’m making. But at a baseline, I’ll just be happier. I’ll be happier when I’m making stuff I really like for just creation’s sake, for just fun’s sake.
(55:29 – 58:51) Tiff Tyler: Man, cheers to that. Yep, 100%. Last thing I’ll say, because I know we went over the time that you had allotted for this, but I haven’t talked to you like this in a year, so I’m very excited. to all the creatives out there who work a nine to five or who freelance and you’re constantly creating for other people, it makes sense that you have this draw to make something for yourself, to make something that’s not, it could be something you get sponsored or paid for or branded. But if you are feeling a bit of a lull or you’re like, man, you know, this used to be everything. Why am I not feeling inspired? Just because what Christine is saying feels so relatable to me, again, with that whole like, maybe when I said earlier, maybe getting bored was the wrong way to say it. It’s more just like uninspired because if I’m at a place where I’m not learning or doing something a little bit different, or I don’t feel like I’m growing, that’s when I get pulled to go do something different. I highly, highly recommend hobbies, creative hobbies, especially if your full-time job is creativity, because it’s not like you’re falling out of love with your craft or your art. You just need time to create without someone else’s. You’re really producing someone else’s dream, right? You’re making someone else’s dream come true. You’re telling someone else’s story. So it makes sense that you have this creative burn. to make your own ideas, tell your own story in your kind of way. So if you like to play drums, if you like to make music, if you like to paint, if you like, I just, Ty just gave me an adult coloring book, which I didn’t even know was a thing. I was like, that’s cool. You know, it’s something fun to do. I didn’t even know they made coloring books for adults, but apparently that’s a thing just to get your creative juices flowing, to feel like a kid again, to try something new. Just be inspired by that because we are coming towards the end of the year. Seasonal depression is real. I feel like creative, you know, lol is real. People starting to feel just kind of like what’s next. You know, I think some people get really excited about the new year and some people are like me. Half the time I’m kind of just like, I didn’t do enough, you know, I need to do more. So please feel inspired. Please try something different. And don’t feel alone. If you are in a bit of a creative lull right now, or if you’re looking for something different, it’s great to try new activities, to hang out with creative friends, to talk about creative ideas. Because some of the ideas Christine told me about already, very much looking forward to these shows being created. But it’s good to know that you’re not alone. I feel like whenever I did get really sad or in these kinds of lulls, it was good to know that I am not the only person that feels this way. So as we get to the end of the year, hopeful for 2024, I hope you don’t feel alone if you also want to be inspired, if you also want to look for that fire again to be reignited. And like I said, I changed my industry a little bit, then came back because I needed that, that fire to be lit again. And I’m so grateful to find someone that is lighting that fire for me, but I got to continue to keep that flame burning for myself. So. Okay. I’m totally done now, Christine, totally, totally, completely done.
(58:51 – 01:00:24) Christine Baird: I mean, we’re never done, but I think it was a great ending note for our bonus season. episode, the only thing we recorded in 2023. We are just so grateful for anybody listening and watching. Thank you for being along with us still. And we really mean it when we say if you have a comment or a question, you can leave a comment on the YouTube video. You can send us an email. You can send it to thinklikeaproducer at gmail.com or christine at worthfullmedia.com. I’ll get it to us. And, you know, we’ll see what comes in 2024. We’ll probably record more, but you can definitely follow Tiff on Instagram. You can subscribe to the Worthfull Media email newsletter at worthfullmedia.com. You can subscribe to the Worthfull Media YouTube channel, which is where this Think Like a Producer video episode will be hosted on that YouTube channel. Those are some ways to keep up with us if you want to keep up with us next year. Oh, yeah. Okay. Bye. Bye, everybody. Bye, Tiff. Bye, Christine. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Think Like a Producer. This has been a Worthfull Media production. Massive thanks to our team who makes the show possible, Worthfull Media for audio editing, Jorge and Veronica from Mosaico Productions for video effects, and Amela Subasic for our amazing artwork and graphics.